Apple discussion

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Charger440
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Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

Today a federal judge ruled that Apple must provide a way for the FBI to get into an iPhone that was used by one of the shooters in San Bernardino CA.

Apple has refused to do so by claiming that if they allow a way in to the phone it would allow other peoples phones to be broken into as well. Their refusal to cooperate is in the name of safety. They also claim that if you have never connected your phone to iTunes and you forget your password or someone changes it on you there is NO way to get back in to YOUR phone in the name of safety. Their "in the name of safety" is one of the main reasons I don't use them.

I can understand that they would not want to create a backdoor to allow people in to your phone. However, in this case a judge ordered them to allow the FBI to crack a phone known to be owned by a terrorist so they could see if there was any additional information. They thumbed their noses at a federal judge to protect the information of a terrorist. Knowing that Apple will NOT cooperate with authorities on their phones makes their phones very attractive to terrorists.

By proxy, Apple would then be aiding and abetting terrorists.

Thoughts?
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
wmmiller
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by wmmiller »

I think it’s a slippery slope and have to go with Apple on this one. I think if we throw out political correctness and there was a serous killing machine released on these terroristic people we wouldn’t need to worry about their cell phones. I don’t trust our government to do anything with honesty and integrity at this point in time. I also think that we need to get control of our borders. In my opinion, until that happens nothing else maters anyway.

Bill
Play stupid games….win stupid prizes
Brink
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by Brink »

The FBI does not really need the cooperation of Apple to retrieve the contents of the phone. But why not ask (court order them) to see if they will make it easy. When they refuse then of course it makes for a news story. And then the FBI has to go to work cracking the phone. They will take the thing apart an decrypt the flashroms using quantum computers if necessary.

I'm not a fan of Apple or their gadgets or terrorism,but I have to admire Apple for standing by their promise that their device is secure. No aiding terrorist about it. Just a promise to deliver security and then delivering on that promise.
Charger440
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Location: Missouri

Re: Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

I respect sticking to your guns on your policies. After all our Leader here is very good about that as well. However, there is a huge difference between not putting a back door in the software and simply refusing to aide in the investigation of a terrorist. I for sure want my information to be secure but for people to loose all their data for not good reason is ridiculous. After your fifth try at remembering your password you have to wait a half hour plus to try again. Apple's security scheme, while good for security is anything but friendly for the user.

My main problem with this story is that Apple refuses to help the FBI in investigating a terrorist. With proper court documents there should no reason for Apple to impede the investigation.
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
Xander
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by Xander »

Good for Apple for protecting the consumer. Let the FBI work it out themselves. This "aiding the terrorist" BS is just Trump-level garbage.

A backdoor should never exist at a software level; way too much opportunity for hackers and the flagwavers to get into one's data. If a backdoor were ever to exist, it should be at a hardware level where the Feds would have to have a device akin to a Deepspar machine and work on the data chips. Being able to just enter a magic password and access someone's data puts it in far too many hands.
Charger440
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Location: Missouri

Re: Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

There are a few key issues with the Apple "Caring for our customers" talk.

It makes no sense for the FBI to want a modified version of the OS to install on devices to get the data off with. When you install a new version of the OS it wipes the phone during the process. Particularly if you DON"T know the pass code.

Apple claims they are helping the FBI gain access to the phone when they have a history of not even helping their own customers.

If Apple had helped the FBI they would not have gone before a federal judge to force Apple to help them.

There is no "threat to security" in Apple helping de-crypt that phone. However, they gain quite a bit of publicity if they refuse on the grounds of "public safety" in the face of the big bully trying to make them do something.

Maybe John McAffee (questionable) or someone else should crack it so the FBI can get the info they need and Apple can pop back in the media by suing someone.
This "aiding the terrorist" BS is just Trump-level garbage.
Considering your mentalities, I would think you would like Trump in stead of talking trash about him.
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
wmmiller
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John McAfee weighs in on Apple Vs FBI fight

Post by wmmiller »

This is interesting from someone who I would think would have a pretty good understanding of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl77RcJPqGs
Play stupid games….win stupid prizes
Charger440
Posts: 1529
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Location: Missouri

Re: Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

He makes good points. I have never thought that iOS and Android should have back doors but I do think that under a judges subpoena, Apple should unlock specific phones. You seen John saying he can do it in under 3 weeks so you know Apple can do it faster. The problem I have, is if Apple was readily working with the FBI they would not need to go before a judge and try to force Apple to create a backdoor which should not be needed in the first place.
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
Xander
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by Xander »

Charger440 wrote:
This "aiding the terrorist" BS is just Trump-level garbage.
Considering your mentalities, I would think you would like Trump in stead of talking trash about him.
Funny. I'd have said the same about you. He also is a big fan of trying to bully people into doing what he wants even though he's got no real clout to back it up.
Brink
Posts: 283
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by Brink »

The problem I have, is if Apple was readily working with the FBI they would not need to go before a judge and try to force Apple to create a backdoor which should not be needed in the first place.
If apple were readily working with the FBI and it were found out by the public it would kill their business as would providing backdoors into their software.
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
In this case the papers are digital and if the forefathers had known of iPads, I'm sure that they would have been in the list. So really with a court order issued after probable cause has been established and that one iPad being particularly described in the order as the place to be searched, apple should open that one device to satisfy that one order. But providing law enforcement with back door software that they can use arbitrarily in the future without warrant falls under unreasonable and is illegal under that constitution.
Charger440
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

From the get-go there has been a little confusion here. We keep debating me on why back doors would be bad. I am not advocating in anyway, shape or form that Apple or anyone else for that matter put a back door in an OS for it to be hacked easily by the "FBI," that's just stupid.
Brink wrote:
The problem I have, is if Apple was readily working with the FBI they would not need to go before a judge and try to force Apple to create a backdoor which should not be needed in the first place.
If apple were readily working with the FBI and it were found out by the public it would kill their business as would providing backdoors into their software.
Who, exactly, would be mad that Apple helped catch a terrorist group? I'm not sure who would love terrorists so much that they would boycott Apple for helping. Apple loves publicity and this a great way for them to get it. Tim cook and Apple as a whole are marketing geniuses, they are not going to miss this chance.
Brink wrote:
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
In this case the papers are digital and if the forefathers had known of iPads, I'm sure that they would have been in the list. So really with a court order issued after probable cause has been established and that one iPad being particularly described in the order as the place to be searched, apple should open that one device to satisfy that one order. But providing law enforcement with back door software that they can use arbitrarily in the future without warrant falls under unreasonable and is illegal under that constitution.
Again, no one said Apple putting a back door in iOS was a good idea. However, Getting the phone from a person known to have killed someone, attempted to kill police and check it for other terrorist contacts is not enough to satisfy the law you just quoted? It seems like all points of it were covered nicely to me.
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
wmmiller
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Re: Apple discussion

Post by wmmiller »

It’s funny how this went from Apple to Donald Trump. But since it did, I will bite. I think there are two things that people like about Donald Trump.

1: he’s likely the only one that may actually try building a wall and controlling the boarders.

2: He doesn’t give a crap about political correctness.

On both those things, I like Donald Trump.

Off the top of my head there are four things I don’t like.

Google, Apple products, Political correctness & Illegal immigration sucking the life out of the US. (key word illegal. Not undocumented or any other dumb worded bull.)

I guess we will see how things shake out but if I was going to vote today, I would vote for Donald Trump based solely on one & two above. Looking at how things are working out, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I’m not alone. I think there are people out there saying one thing about Donald Trump and doing another. In my opinion, if we don’t get those two things starting with item one under control nothing else matters. Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion (or at least one used to be) and if someone doesn’t like it they should just move on. If I don’t like something I just don’t watch it, listen to it, hang around it, etc. I’m just sick of everyone being offended by everything.

Some say I’m crazy. I accept. ;)

Bill
Play stupid games….win stupid prizes
Charger440
Posts: 1529
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 7:44 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

Bill

When Trump first announced he was running I thought there would be no way I would vote for him but I'm starting to think he may not be a bad candidate as far as bad candidates go. I mean after all, his closest Democrat opponent really should be in jail, not running for president.

You are right, he don't care about political correctness. He tells it like he sees it whether that's good or bad.

A lot of his ideas I do agree with him on but not all of them though. I know people talk smack about him but the polls are saying otherwise. In some places his is winning by a landslide. I am actually impressed that not only has he gotten this far but he is the clear front runner of the GOP.

It's not the Products Apple has that I don't like. The products are generally good quality although they could be better if they weren't locked down so tight. It's Apple and their policies I don't like. You can have any iPhone you want as long as it's an iPhone. You can install any app you want as long as Apple approves it. The technology in apple is generally a couple years behind Android based phones yet they claim to be leading edge. Google on the other hand, their sheer size can scare you but, they generally have the "good of man" in mind. Now whether that means Google is really SkyNet, we will have to wait and see. for example, Google Fiber, It's add based but the base speed for FREE is faster than anything AT&T offers. There is Google Fi which is true pay as you go cell service. You pay a base price for the service then you pay for however many Gigs of data you use. Say you pay for 4 GB this month but you only use 1.5. Next month you get a credit for 2.5 GB of data. So the next month you literally could wind up paying only for the base service.

Illegal aliens should not be here at all. They should not be allowed to have driver license in Illinois, they should not get welfare and free healthcare and they should not vote. If they want to enter legally then great, more power to them. But, not illegally. We have to many of our own people that need that help.

I hate being politically correct. It's just for politicians and whiny people. I have no use for it.
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
wmmiller
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Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: Apple discussion

Post by wmmiller »

Hi Jim,
It’s not really Apple products I don’t like and honestly I don’t have, never had or want any. It’s the “i” everything that bugs the crap out of me. I know that’s dumb but I just can’t shake it. :roll:
Play stupid games….win stupid prizes
Charger440
Posts: 1529
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Location: Missouri

Re: Apple discussion

Post by Charger440 »

The whole "I" thing is a lie so maybe that is why it bothers you :)
Jim

It is not "Can it be done?" but rather, "How can we do it?"
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